crazy ideas (game modes)...

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crazy ideas (game modes)...

Postby Finch » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:00 pm

ok, you asked for crazy ideas, I have a few :)

Maybe you have already noticed that I like incredible weapons and combos :) But I'm often short on materials for building them (most importantly silver) and even if I have everything I need, the higher levels (day 150 and later) don't really let you build those any more because you can hardly sell them...

Also, the higher levels don't really allow for much "randomness" any more, you build things mostly from inventory. Here are a few ideas that take this a step further. It's basically like "new game modes" and I'm not yet sure how they would tie into the "standard game"... but it's a collection of ideas, maybe we can discuss and turn them into something that can be implemented:

1) Puzzle Mode:
There could be a "puzzle mode" where you see which weapon(s) you'll need and you also see which molds are coming up - that means you'd see all molds (can be a lot!) and can figure out a smart way of using them to build the weapons you need. In the simple ones, you'd just need to build smartly. Harder versions could require combos. Puzzles could either start with an empty board or with a board that already has a starting position. Also, you could get bonus points if you don't need all the materials provided... (by making combos)
To make this possible, I guess the ore pistol would need to give you only bronze or only iron or a fixed sequence (anyway, something deterministic and not random)

2) "Evening Sale":
This one is much more concrete and easier to implement. The idea is allowing for greater weapons without making the game easier.
Once all heroes are satisfied and there's only a guard left, there could be an "evening sale": This means you can buy all materials in the store and use them immediately, but you cannot add them to the inventory. So if I need 7 silver to do a netherium combo, I can buy them (one at a time), but I can not stock unlimited silver for the next day. As far as I can tell, most items "cost much more than they are worth" - that means you cannot get rich by buying lots of things to make great weapons. But you could at least build great weapons without totally depleting your inventory... and without having to play for 30 days just to collect silver...
For implementation, there are not enough shelves in the store, but there could just be another button on the items: "Use", "Sell" and "Buy another and use" (this would also mean you can only buy&use items you own, but that's ok I think, maybe even an advantage)

3) "Apprenticeship":
Here you could practice building weapons or try out things... you'd have access to "unlimited materials", but the weapons you build cannot be sold or only be sold at very low prices (like a 90% apprenticeship discount). I realize that "unlimited materials" is not something you want to give us ;) And maybe "unlimited materials" doesn't make good sense anyway (would people use lots of netherium ores to build weapons?) - but materials could be sold at 10% of their normal price and the value of weapons could be 5% of their normal value... this would make the apprenticeship "commercially unattractive and mostly for learning" - just like real apprenticeships are ;) The weapons should show that they were made by an apprentice, but should also show what they would "normally" be worth so we can still post screenshots ;)


4) "Dream Mode":
Just an idea to talk about: This is roughly like saving a game and restoring it later. You can try things using only your own inventory, but "when you wake up", everything is back to what it was before. You can not keep the weapons you make, but you don't lose inventory items either. I think "in theory" this can be achieved now by saving a game to the cloud, then going offline to do stuff, then wipe out all game data and reload from the cloud... but who wants to do that??! (also, I think it's risky) Also, I guess there could be a tiny reward for the practice... maybe you can gain some items or at least it would count for "crafted weapons" (but I guess not for contracts)

Curious what you think :)
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Re: crazy ideas (game modes)...

Postby Vincent » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:02 am

Hi!

Early in PF2 dev we thought of many modes, in the end we have only keep a survival mode.
This decision is only because we are only 2 here and we had to release the game in less than a year or the company could fail.
So this is why it's only a survival game, and you are right, it become insanely unfair over 150 days (to be honest we never thought players could go to this point ^^)
Make a weapon only require to have gold and a LOT OF STUFF in the chest.

We had an idea about Challenge Mode which is like your Puzzle Mode I guess. Lets say 20 challenges (or puzzles) to do, for each challenge the items are stored in a temporary chest. No distribution, no pistol here. We could even do puzzles with only one solution! Just take the materials and find how to put them on the board to have these weapons.

But really this is a lot of work ^^

I like "apprenticeship" too. In fact if we had time to work more on PF2, I would put the survival mode as a free (kind of apprenticeship) mode.
Why? because of tournament. If current survival mode is survival it's because we needed to keep scores and competition in the game, because it's an important aspect of our economic (I mean really the way we earn money at TQ) it's an easy way to keep players active and keep having fun in the game even if they complete the game. So the current survival is competitive and you can have contract, and heroes have requests and... etc... this is too complex ^^ (and for example asking for contracts where you are not able to do what you want is a non-sense ^^)

Then now that we have 2 modes we could split: competitive aspect in tournament, crafting aspect in free mode (do contracts, complete orders, complete special customers, there will be no end to this part of the game) we could also remove the insanely difficulty at 150 days... this would definitively be a more balanced game :)

This is not a trivial modification though. We should remove hearts, remove opening days feature, maybe totaly redo the order process. A player will only play to earn gold and satsifaction from heroes, do crafting experiments, search for legendaries, and then he'll use gold to go into tournament and show his skills (so he will not use stone to play tournament but gold).

Maybe I don't know, this could be a good project to do but we need more people to do that. Or to stop what we are doing now ^^
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Re: crazy ideas (game modes)...

Postby Finch » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:37 pm

Vincent wrote: Early in PF2 dev we thought of many modes, in the end we have only keep a survival mode.
This decision is only because we are only 2 here and we had to release the game in less than a year or the company could fail.


I understand that :) So I tried to keep my "game modes" simple. From the sound of it, they are all a lot simpler than the tournament (which I'm looking forward to!). Please think about the "Evening sale", it should be simple to do and solve "most" of "my problems" ;)

Vincent wrote:So this is why it's only a survival game, and you are right, it become insanely unfair over 150 days (to be honest we never thought players could go to this point ^^)
Make a weapon only require to have gold and a LOT OF STUFF in the chest.


Legendary weapons are the way out... I do legendary weapons for most heroes now and I think without legendary weapons, I would've never arrived at day 200. I think I can go a lot higher (I am *not* using many items from my inventory, I actually keep collecting more stuff and still have 170,000 gold... (started the current game with about 10,000)) - BUT... it's not really fun... I cannot play the game without a "dictionary" (of legendary weapons), making combos is very limited and getting rid of weapons that are not "made to order (specifically for one hero)" is difficult... I'm now doing my own challenges (combos :)), but I think I will quit the current game even if I don't "lose (all my lives)"...

Vincent wrote:We had an idea about Challenge Mode which is like your Puzzle Mode I guess. Lets say 20 challenges (or puzzles) to do, for each challenge the items are stored in a temporary chest. No distribution, no pistol here. We could even do puzzles with only one solution! Just take the materials and find how to put them on the board to have these weapons.

But really this is a lot of work ^^

Yes, that's the downside... it would be a lot of work to design new puzzles and some players would solve them quickly and keep asking for more ;) ... On the other hand, it might be easier than doing new game features - you could design one new one every week and it would keep players engaged and coming back...

Vincent wrote:I like "apprenticeship" too. In fact if we had time to work more on PF2,


The apprenticeship I suggested shouldn't even be *that* hard to do...

Vincent wrote:if we had time to work more on PF2, I would .... [change everything] ... This is not a trivial modification though. We should remove hearts, remove opening days feature, maybe totaly redo the order process.


Yes - that would be PF3 then... let's not do that for now :)
I've seen that often enough: People say: "well, instead of making this little change to make things better, let's make this number of huge changes to make them even 'more better'" - but then the huge changes are so big that they never start. I like the current game, it doesn't need to change completely... of course of all the ideas I posted, the ideas in this post are the "big ones", but I wanted to post them anyway :) I think Evening Sale and maybe Apprenticeship could be doable "soon"... there could be an easy alternative for "Dream Mode": If we could turn off "cloud save" and "cloud restore" completely (as an option, of course!) and get "load" and "save" buttons instead, it's almost the same. You could "save", then "play your dream" and then load again :) Not ideal, but at least doable without an extra team of developers :) I'm honestly not sure how "important" dream mode would be and how often I would use it... I did a few things by playing on a second device, but I don't have a good inventory there...

Well anyway, lets do the possible first and the impossible a little later :) (si c'est possible, c'est fait; impossible? cela se fera)
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